Monday, March 16th, 2020 Bi Weekly Imba Community Meeting

Here is the latest recording of the bi-weekly community meeting, enjoy!

Hey sorry I missed it again, things have been chaotic and this is at 2:00 AM local time! I will try again in two weeks!

Thank you for the call out on the routing (~8:50, 14:45), I am working on trying to make a blog in Imba and am using Imba v1 because of the lack of router support in Imba v2. I am really excited to upgrade to Imba v2 as soon as the router is supported! (I know there are many work arounds or other options in javascript but I don’t really know javascript that well and don’t want to bake it into my app). I have poked around in the repo a bit and just don’t have the skills to determine why it doesn’t work without any context. If anyone knows what it is about Imba v2 that is incompatible with the router I would love to work on it-- I just can’t get a foothold with the amount of context I have.

I was pretty confused during the discussion on private vs. public variables(starting around 32 minutes in), I thought “Imba embraces the philosophy that classes should expose everything through methods” so all variables should be private anyways? If you want a variable/field to be public you need to make a get, a set, or a prop. There shouldn’t be any marker required for a private variable! I feel like we need to steer the discussion to use a more “Imba” mindset. Maybe I am misunderstanding the problem?

I also strongly believe we should use prop for readability.

I am really unhappy to see ‘@’ be removed from its role as “class variable”-- though I don’t know how long ago this change was made. What is replacing it? It wasn’t really clear in this video. How do I elegantly produce this behaviour now? This would also prevent any confusion in the example from (1:02:00) with. owner = owner

I’m not super happy about typed properties, this is the first time I have seen it. I know it is optional. but, once again, Imba is changing to play more nicely with the existing front end framework-- not because it is a more “Imba” way to do it. Is the suggested style going to be to type everything? is this going to be compiler enforced? I appreciate the value of autocomplete, but to switch from untyped to typed (even just stylistically and not compiler enforced) is a huge change, a huge change away from what I thought was the “Imba” way.

YES. owner. = owner is ambiguous. (1:02:00)

Overall this was a really disappointing update. I am In love with the language described on Imba.io, and am aligned with its core philosophy. But that language is no longer supported and with the modern changes I am realizing that Imba v2 is being built on a different set of objectives.

I feel like Imba is changing a lot to be more compatible with javascript-- I do not like this trend. I don’t like javascript, that Is why I am looking for alternatives to javascript. Yes there is a huge ecosystem that exists for front end development in javascript, yes it makes sense to want to capitalize on that, but the syntax of Python and Ruby were not built so that people could interchangeably use arbitrary C libraries in their Python and Ruby projects, the syntax was built to provide as good a developer experience as possible. Everytime Imba becomes less like ruby and more like javascript it becomes easier to plug in javascript into Imba, but sacrifices developer experience. Every time this happens I have less reason to try to learn Imba.

I know I am very new to the community, but please consider my feedback. I am a huge proponent of Imba, I talk it up to my coworkers all the time, I am working on a blog to help beginners learn to program with Imba. I think Imba could be to javascript what Ruby or Python is to C, but only if it has a clear guiding philosophy and sticks to it. I need to know that Imba V2 will still be Imba is if I’m going to commit this much time to it and encourage others to do the same.

I would be happy to chat about this more in depth any time. I just joined the discord and will try to be more active there, but there is a huge time zone difference so don’t expect me to be online all the time

As Sindre pointed out in the beginning, things are still fairly unstable not just the feature set but the syntax as well. No time limit has been set. This means that anything could really happen in the time between Imba v2 being released and now.

The router lacking is a temporary issue that will be resolved. The main problem here being time and other topics that are considered more important to do first. To be honest, personally I wished we prioritized features/bits that would make it easier to adopt Imba v2 or at least not make it feel like a downgrade at times. Currently, as it stands, you can use Imba v2 but really only for simple use cases. Is using it for bigger apps is going to be very painful. Hopefully, when the data layer stuff has been resolved it can be tackled but let’s wait and see.

We have recordings of previous meetings but I really can’t understand why we added the private variables stuff. I know it’s related to the discussions on implicit self but it’s possible several months back. Maybe I will rewatch the previous ones to relearn the whole rational.

prop is more readable but I am not sure how I feel about it again :smile: I have seen issues with it but might just be bugs. Looking at the code you linked to there are differences in Imba v2, like you now have to use constructor instead of initialize, add the parenthesis () to method calls. Do you think these changes are negatives?

Enforcing static types is not something anyone is purposing but having the possibility to define your types clearly is definitely useful when you are working with API’s and the payload matters. I don’t think this will have negative effects on people who only want to use the dynamic parts.

After trying it x = x inside of a constructor, it’s feeling good, but maybe it’s just because @somebee explained it.

We are moving towards JavaScript on some fronts. JavaScript is evolving and there are interesting lessons to be learned. I am not saying what we are doing is the right approach but it’s one we are going in. Nothing is set in stone, so you can still have a huge impact on the direction. If you feel strongly about certain bits, open up an issue that describes the topic well. Everyone here is open to change their mind provided good arguments. Please try to test against the latest Imba version before opening up an issue. Things are changing fast.

Thanks for your feedback.

:+1:t4: Let us know how it goes with the blog.